The Listening Body

– group conversation

Wednesday the 20th of Marts

The vault at Art Hub Copenhagen

55 minutes.

 

Present: Nana Francisca Schottländer, Barbora Kováčová, Amalie Sejersdahl, Randi Lindholm Hansen, Lukas Quist Lund.

 

Unedited AI generated transcription (apologies for spelling mistakes).

[To be revisited, sorting out speakers and fragmentized later on].

Is it okay if I turn the light a little bit up? Sure. I have very much experience with the space that you’ve been saying about coming to the space and having this kind of feeling. It happened to me many times with some very special places which have this atmosphere that you come in and then you feel it. It’s there. It’s not by sound. It’s not by visuals. It’s something in a place which reveals to you immediately all these memories, but you don’t know what it is. You cannot grasp it. I have some churches that I come in and I feel this church has so many layers from the floor to the ceiling. There was life in some filled way and then I come to other churches like, it’s also the church but I don’t feel anything and everything kind of seems empty. I also want to ask you if you have some kind of resonance with the places, not by the sound, not by that you’ve ever been there, but just to come to a new place and have this feeling that it’s a living, but you cannot see? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And I think for me, we were talking about this the other days, is that resonance for me is not necessarily a concept of sound but more of like how I guess the ambience or the or the the beingness of something resonates into my system not via sound but via I don’t hear but but the presence of something or other space resonates. Yeah, exactly, the presence of something. I’m so invisible to you, which you can just sense somehow. I worked a lot with spaces, and I did one project in this abandoned factory, which was like 2 ,000 square meters of air. abandoned spaces that had not, there had not been people there for maybe 30 years. And it felt like the spaces had kind of fallen into themselves. They had become, I don’t know, themselves. And each space had this very unique, almost, yeah, ambience or, or, or frequency or condensation of something, and so the whole project was kind of like how to bring this inherent beingness, how to sort of amplify it, yeah. And I think that’s kind of always what I, how I work is through this like trying to understand what is, what is here. And I use my own body as the tool for understanding that of how it resonates into my system. And it sounds like, yeah, but we’re just imagining things. And maybe I am. am, but it doesn’t feel that way. It feels like I am informed. And sometimes I’m informed of things I would have never imagined. I started this project quite some time ago with rocks trying to establish like this kind of bodily connection or exchange with rocks. I’ve always been really passionate about rocks. They are very, very wise, resonant beings. And I remember one of the first times I did a performance where I said, “Okay, the rocks decide what will happen, so I have to listen and make myself available for that.” And this, in this scenario, in I felt like they told me really wild things that I did not expect and and it really became like a beginning point of this thing of also asking questions like as a way of trying to to perceive of these exchanges in a like maybe more guided way To try and ask these questions and see what What answers sort of arise in my system as a response in the connection? Do you actually communicate with objects? Is it communication with objects and actually the object, or is it communication through the object with yourself? Yeah, and I can’t say that. I just know that I’m always surprised by the answers, yeah. But yeah, it’s hard to say which is which, and I cannot… I don’t know, actually. I mean, I also do it, and I also don’t know. It’s abuse, it’s kind of… intuitively being with it and being open towards things which you have in front of you and letting it unfold. But there is something about the nature of questions that allows one to stay at the very borderline or the edge of one recognized world. That of course. course you cannot transcend everything, but the questions put you on the border and That like for some of the rocks are like no We don’t have the same bodily experience as a rock But the questions around that difference put us at the border of those two experiences and where they differ So at least for me like I think the nature of questions is a very nice way to challenge the recognizable and unrecognizable and put ourselves in between, not because we can then transit or find a solution, but we can just stay with the trouble right there rather than go over it and find something too easy to understand. Only because you mentioned, like, you used the questions as… a guidance and I thought that was quite nice yeah a guidance to this Edge of meaning or yeah, and I guess it’s also a way of staying. Yeah, like on the edge of meaning, but also staying Actively seeking Like it’s not really about the answer answers, the answers are wonderful and always very meaningful. But it’s about, like, what, I guess, what tools do we have to stay in the, in that kind of open, receiving space, and the questions for me is like a way of yeah keeping on putting myself into the unknowing. Maybe there’s nothing about how we can listen to the questions of our body rather than the questions of our words because there’s a difference like when we translate our bodily questions into questions of language then they’re different from that of the body. So how can we perhaps listen more to the questions of the body as a way to keep that active, challenging and more expanded? I think, I don’t know. I mean, I think it’s definitely different modes, but I think inherently the question that like the body is an ongoing question to the world. world in the way we are constantly in relation and in sensorial exchange. There is an ongoing questioning there as a sort of baseline, then maybe we are aware of it or aligned with it or maybe we are not? Yeah I think in a very similar way how nowadays we are actually forbidding the body to speak and closing up and being way more aware of social situation and do not listen in the bodies and then it comes back to universe inverse, and that’s exactly also the more art way of thinking to be in this mode of openness, of sensing with the body and letting unfold and go out, But there is something about the nature of questions that allows one to stay at the very borderline or the edge of one recognized world.That of course. course you cannot transcend everything, but the questions put you on the border and That like for some of the rocks are like no We don’t have the same bodily experience as a rock But the questions around that difference put us at the border of those two experiences and where they differ So at least for me like I think the nature of questions is a very nice way to challenge the recognizable and unrecognizable and put ourselves in between, not because we can then transit or find a solution, but we can just stay with the trouble right there rather than go over it and find something too easy to understand. Only because you mentioned, like, you used the questions as… a guidance and I thought that was quite nice yeah a guidance to this Edge of meaning or yeah, and I guess it’s also a way of staying. Yeah, like on the edge of meaning, but also staying Actively seeking. Like it’s not really about the answers. The answers are wonderful and always very meaningful. But it’s about, like, what, I guess, what tools do we have to stay in the, in that kind of open, receiving space, and the questions for me is like a way of yeah keeping on putting myself into the unknowing. Maybe there’s nothing about how we can listen to the questions of our body rather than the questions of our words because there’s a difference like when we translate our bodily questions into questions of language then they’re different from that of the body. So how can we perhaps listen more to the questions of the body as a way to keep that active, challenging and more expanded? There is an ongoing questioning there as a sort of baseline, then maybe we are aware of it or aligned with it or maybe we are not? Yeah I think in a very similar way how nowadays we are actually forbidding the body to speak and closing up and being way more aware of social situation and do not listen in the bodies and then it comes back to universe inverse, and that’s exactly also the more art way of thinking to be in this mode of openness, of sensing with the body and letting unfold and go out, and then exactly communicate, or by small intuition which is born in you. do not restrict it but get into the mode you can completely follow and then it speaks to speak with you but maybe you speak with yourself. I just want to ask a clarifying question. Maybe or so you mean that by listening to your body body and to your intuition or whatever that is, your body becomes more prepared to listen to the environment around it or what? More open. I mean more open than you are not, how to say, when something, when you feel unpleasant, and your body is clutched, clutched better. and you also have the expression of a face that something is not fine, but you can still keep saying, “Oh, I’m fine”, kind of feeling a bodily posture or a face that something is just wrong. And that’s… I mean, disclosing what the body needs. And when you are in another mode of this, I would even say, like, child mode, then you help and… and you are not in this position that you would not say what you think, because you are this open -mouthed child, you can do whatever, and just… But is openness a necessity for the listening body? Is the body the listening body? Can that also be clutched, or is there a need for… for openness or curiosity, or… I think I think something around this, because I think the body can always be listening, it’s just listening from different positions, and I think like the clenched body, by not acknowledging the clenched body. then maybe it’s hard to be listening from that position but by acknowledging this is a clenched body what does the world sound like from here then even within that situation there is an openness to listening to that then that is what is creating the inside outside experience. So starting from the mode which is there, I think, is always an entry point into… being able to listen or respond or resonate with something. I can really, you know, it was something we also talked about on Monday, I think, about this closeness and really feel like it’s also something that can be built up over such a long time if you don’t have any place. to kind of relieve it or let go of it, and maybe just by, if you want to go into that mode and you will have this closed body, and if you don’t accept that, then you are even getting even more closed. So I think it’s a really good point. Also just for, like for example, doing the workshop we did yesterday like if you are not totally in this exploring mode or if you have some barriers in any way mentally or that just by accepting that that’s a good that’s one step further for getting closer to experiencing something. – But I feel like, at least for myself, that something else can happen if I’m not that close to up. So there is, for me, inside, it’s really difficult to let go of this, there is a better place to be. my own body but because I think it’s just the feeling of maybe some kind of stress inside of the body maybe this is the way I now think of it is that it really goes two ways it’s both like how do we let go of idolized listening ways where stress is not welcomed like like why is the discomfort not part of our idea of listening but at the same time why is the world and the structure not also welcoming that stress it’s like push against the discomfort and the clutchness and the stress that go both ways like there’s no space for it at all there’s no rest for it and there’s no holding the space with and for the stress it’s just left out in the wild in some way. So my question is really like, how can we both invite ourselves to open up listening to be better at caring for the stress? But how can we also remind the structures and the spaces and the world to also help us in that endeavor? Because it really feels like both entities, us as the agents, and all the other agents, but also the world that we are being within, are both struggling with the discomfort. Yeah, and curiously exploring discomfort is also a really active way of dissolving it, or at least dissolving the immediate notion of it as this is discomfort, this is something I need to get rid of. Yeah, because also to voice the stress itself, it doesn’t go away just because we don’t want it. It has its own with them, it owns needs, ways of being in the world, and we have to listen to that and respect that and care for that rather than being… we locked in to understand it and invite it in and think it should be going somewhere else that is not me. I had an experience one point quite a while ago going to a party alone and feeling so awkward and like socially dyslexic and yeah and one point I was like, okay, I just need to own this awkwardness. I need to rest in this awkwardness. And I need to kind of salute it almost. So I made this little sentence for myself that I could tell myself it’s like, awkwardness is the new black. And it kind of meant that I could sort of ease into this awkwardness. awkwardness and also see the beauty of it and kind of just live and sense and be within it. And then that shifted something around this, like no, no, no, you’re not supposed to be awkward or you’re supposed to be this or you’re supposed to be that. And I really like listening to those modes or steps. states and then kind of honoring them with presence and saying yes this is valid and even maybe valuable then that opens a completely different trajectory. But I wonder if the discomfort only exists in the unwelcoming nature of a situation because as soon as you let it in or you give in to whatever emotion or mode your body holds then you’re allowed to be comfortable in it and then the discomfort dissolves. That’s kind of like where you were almost attacked by the sound. Yes, yes, then you at one point let it be in surrender and then you are in it and you don’t have this suppressing tension in your body but then suddenly you can breathe. Yeah, just let it go through and you are in the moment. Yeah, that’s very much what I was saying. there’s like a tagline in surrendering to being a body rather than the idea of a body or a narrative for the body, then just surrendering to be that body that you are. Exactly, to listen to the body in the surrendering way that now it’s this discomfort but just exploring it can dissolve this discomfort and then one can move a little bit forward, therefore if you suppress as I have in my experience it comes back or it’s a recurrent it comes back in bigger and bigger scale and then 1 .1 can bear it anymore. But I think we still have to recognize how much pain and struggle that also lies in in surrendering to being that body like a body body is not necessarily a nice place to be like some bodies is probably super nice happy bodies other bodies are super stressed or that carried traumas or they live in a world doesn’t want them to be alive or whatever um so I think in in in that terms of like surrendering to being a body for many bodies is also perhaps too much it’s equal stuff or it’s comes with struggles that is not for themselves to carry or something but yeah I think yeah there’s definitely some kind of level of at least in the way we’re talking about it now of security or basic like confidence in our situation that maybe can allow us to to surrender into it, whereas in situations that are much more high conflict or traumatizing or where your life is at stake, surrendering to acknowledging what your body is feeling right now is not an option. Yeah, no, I think also what one thing is what our bodies are feeling right now but also think that that the bodies is is a way that we can I not and I ourselves across many other obstacles like of course there’s a big difference between if your body is being threatened by bombs or starvation but the same threat of the body also exists in the idea of you working More hours a day then you can rest like your body is still being exploited and breaking down and I think Not because I want to compare but like different cultures have different why are we strong now test about What ideal of the body we have and I really think in the West we have very much in some way committed suicide to you to have these very dislike images of the bodies. – I believe there’s different modes of surrendering, perhaps that there are. Surrendering to having a body, or surrendering your body to a situation, or to an emotion, or to a context, depending on which emotion you’re in. experience your body holds, there might be different, your entrance point into the surrendering might be different, and it might be a process or phases that you need to kind of enter on through. I also feel it should be a broad discussion, but if you are talking… just about the art experiences or these experiences are very more broader, then I even start to lose it, whatever it could be. Maybe art is where you test things out, you experiment and then you can gradually expand into your life. life. Yeah, I mean, yeah, for sure. – There’s also the thing we have mentioned several times, the collective body, because I feel like it’s also, you can also put a lot on your own body. It’s your own body’s responsibility to accept these things and to give in and to render all of this, but it is really something that is a collective. thing and also a collective problem in a way that we our bodies are just in this system so if you take the whole system on your own body it can also be a lot and maybe too much for one body to feel like it has to carry it but also interesting in terms of of tomorrow not that we should talk details but about the awkwardness and how we can hold it together because I guess it can be in some ways it’s going to be awkward which is great yeah yeah yeah exactly how to make the body surrender into it together yeah I was thinking one thing about this like the collective body and the trauma of the local systems or the familiar, the family narratives or the wider connections into the world. And there was somebody I talked to in relation to one of the conflicts that is going on somewhere else in the world right now. now. And she said, “It’s like a wound on the body of the world, on the collective body of the world. But then how we heal that wound has to do with how it sort of resides in us. And then how can we heal the trauma of that wound?” wound from where we are situated in this life and in this context? And I thought that was quite a good observation and also an observation that made it possible for me to operate with feeling the weight of something that I have no immediate way to affect. but I can effect it from my position as a part of the body of the world. Both of you, I think, also mentioned at some point the listening body, as it should be. and as an instrument. I wanted to ask you about that a couple of days ago. I think that’s an interesting idea of the body as a tool and in a way it might carry some negative connotations but it might also… I found it a little bit comforting also. as a mechanism or something that I can use, I can put to use somehow, or channel something true or… I think like, I think about it maybe in terms of sort of like a laboratory setting and we have some kind of like finely tuned instrument. instrument for registering something and I think the body has that capability of really like being some kind of instrument in that way but then again it’s not a passive, it has agency and it has presence and it affects its back so it’s like like this, it’s a living, it’s a living, a living instrument and I really like the idea of the body as a finely tuned instrument. Yeah. It also kind of indicates that it needs to be taken care of and it needs constant tuning. Yeah. Yeah. It’s in process. process. I also think that I also like the instrument and then the musical instrument where there’s a different kind of, but it doesn’t have to. I think we have a tendency to break different things, and a hammer can be very dead, and of course, we can treat it as being alive. But other instruments like the violin, or perhaps our bodies, are instruments that we pay a lot more attention to and we take more care of, and perhaps also need a larger ecology of maintenance. and development and learning in order to become that instrument to what it wants to do. It’s difficult to be a body that tries to exercise care if it hasn’t been taught how to do that. And it’s difficult for a violin to play beautifully if not somebody has finely tuned it and paid a lot of attention to the small details and also somebody playing on it. It isn’t difficult to be a hammer. Yeah it’s just that we don’t think of the hammer in the same way, but we could easily do. I guess the body is like a finely tuned, constantly developing instrument that is played by the world. because I wouldn’t say that I’m the one playing that instrument, like, that happens in… Is there a difference between who is playing the instrument and who is conducting the symphony? Well, I guess attention is kind of conducting, right? Like, where we put… our attention will be conducting whichever symphony arises. I like that. Attention has been directed. Because that also changes the agencies to more collective, an elective task or achievement. Because attention is something that we can direct, but it’s also part of something that is within relationships. But just to go back to like the body as an instrument, because I think it’s really interesting in terms of listening, like how can we be better listeners, how can we learn how to listen, how can we discover different ways of listening and both within ourselves, but also to others, and it just seems that the body is such a powerful learning situation in terms of listening and I just wondered if you also like that metaphors as I do and have notes on it but it’s just often that I think both within the bureau but also my own experience that when we tend to learn how to listen it tends to be a bodily exercise that we engage with and when we tend to pass that experience on it also tends to be a bodily experience and of course in the process there’s a lot of words or whatever but but it is in the bodily situation also with others that the actual exchange of the learning takes place where the body as an instrument would improve itself itself? How would you even call it “tuning” because the situation is also with the body? And then there is a right tuning that can go a little bit more forward as if there is not. And one of the first days we talked about I think I mentioned something. I’m interested also in how to listen to a situation and I think that relates to that like, how when is the situation attuned? When does it become something that can move into something else, or like the kind of how to dance with the situation, and how the possible– for it to move and not having, I think there’s also this thing with instrumentalizing sometimes we instrumentalize our listening, we instrumentalize our bodies, we instrumentalize situations, saying it has to be this, it has to provide that, it has to yield this and this. and this abstaining from instrumentalization I think is also like really really crucial maybe somehow in staying with this yeah curiosity or unknowing and and validation of that which is rather than what what should be or what we are eating for It’s exactly also the thing in the music and in the interpretation of the music, how one listens. If you listen musically, you approach music in a scholarly or academic way. Okay, now I listen to this, now I listen to this, this is the harmony, this is that thing. You know, that can distinguish right and wrong listening, this kind of listening but where are you? you actually not present? And there is that other listening where you are completely devoted to this rationalizing music which, in my opinion, should not be rationalized, but let be in and exactly felt. And it offers so much space for movement, for mistakes. little nuances and all the beauty which can come with something unexpected. Maybe to hack that word of instrumentalization listening, Mike, or the way we can instrumentalize listening is for the aim of something, and maybe that is for the contact of the unknown of the disoriented or to increase our care or attention. So of course the instrument has a certain connotation but I think for me it’s very much more what we aim them for and quite often like as we also speak of situations being instrumentalized it’s really that we’re instrumentalizing them for staying with the unknown. or something difficult, or it’s much more like a clear aim that we can solve. So I really feel like listening is a very interesting tool, and a very important tool to challenge that. And really also, I mean, people are really instrumentalized in this situation, but now for the disorientation, or for the care, or something that doesn’t make sense. And listening can do that, like hack the situation, infiltrate the situation. infiltrate all the other factories of instruments that produce all these things that we already know what is. And Disney hacks that. We claim the instrumentalization back. Yeah, or infiltrate it. But for me, I think, s someone, as we always talked about on Monday, that sometimes, as like I have a body more than I am a body. For me, that’s something comforting in the idea of the body as an instrument. And maybe it’s part of my own process towards something and letting go of the instrument’s mentalization, but there’s something kind of soothing in that. this notion or concept of, “Okay, but my body is already a thing, it’s already a tool, and it is in my control to tune it in whichever direction I want to tune it, or use it, put it to use in whichever way I want to put it to use.” For me, that’s a very comforting thought, actually. – It’s also very rational in some way, because one could argue that if we, once upon a time, were just a body on this planet Earth, then along the way, language came up and we started naming the body a body. Then later on, a certain philosopher named Kenneth Degas Degas talked about the body as this machine, and then we really lost that sensation of the body, of something, of its own agency, and we really just separated the body into something that we could control and use and instrumentalize the way we wanted to, mostly for the worse, but it’s a loss that we cannot escape from, like we cannot return to the moment of before, so the question I think the question is, is there a way to control the body, or is there a way to control to control the body, or is there a way to control the body, or is there a way to control or is there a way to control the body, or is there a way to control the body, or is there the body, or is there a way to control the body, or is there a way to control the body, or also is asking is very much like, how can we now deal with that and make it something that becomes a positive thing? Like once that empowers our being a body or, yeah, I don’t know. – I think I’m experiencing some sort of, and maybe this is speaking to what you’re saying. So I’m experiencing some sort of disconnect between my body and my being and my being myself and I am working towards decreasing this distance between the two. In what way do you feel it? That you are disconnecting. Sure I just feel like whenever, when we’re talking about listening or caring or all of these things or concepts we’ve been talking about now, like when you talk about going into a landscape, meeting the landscape, listening to the landscape, there’s nothing about this that I’ve feel has anything to do with my body, actually. If I stay there long enough, I can make it have to do with my body. But that is not how I meet a place, I think. It’s not how I enter a space. I think time is definitely something also to take into consideration. of like, yeah, and awareness, maybe. I think it’s something I’m not, definitely I think pace, although we were talking about pace also over lunch. There’s something unnatural to the pace my body, or my being, is going on. through the world at the moment, and I think if I think this unnaturalness or discomfort, it might even be that, is kind of growing this distance. I think if I can find a way to, maybe this is actually a question of the in to something or like finding a way to not work against it, to remove the discomfort, to then, yeah, I don’t know, I think there’s a resonance between body and, I don’t know if it’s body and mind or body and self or body and being, that there is a potential for for resonance, that there is a passageway that isn’t open to its full potential, at least, but I’m very curious about how to bridge those. I think this is also a daily training. I think it’s a training of ways of being in the world, continuous explorations, and challenging of one’s assumptions of how I operate here or there and I think even just that like saying each day I will challenge myself in some way to do something differently and resonate with that as just a way of building new passage world. It’s like to keep the brain flexible, you also need to keep learning and keep challenging it and I think it’s very much the same system. Yeah, I also think that that’s the thing you cannot just find or you can just uncover this passage but it’s the training, it’s actually the patience and time which goes into it. Also with these events I see people also just needs to be with themselves that’s the first that actually the alone experience to also how you go to nature how you go to these places if you go with three two people you there is always some kind of chit chat but if you go alone your perception completely changes and you are there with yourself and the place, and you can get to the mode of being way more easier. And then also practice, exactly like listening practice. And then I also learned so much from Lukas to actually listen, and got his sound box from Pauline Oliveros. And this little thing from the school, they’ve been presented to me, and first I thought, “Oh.” “Oh, okay, it’s nice, but then it settles, settles, settles, settles.” And then I was doing it once in a while and suddenly it became such a huge thing and it changed my perspective, really. This small exercise is just in this sound box. I’ve been listening for 10 minutes. But even Lukas now suggested to just go, “Okay, now I’m lost in this environment and just listen.” And it’s, it got to me. completely to a different mode as I was coming here rushing and just thinking, “Oh, my goodness, now I’m… But I think for me, personally it starts with an awareness and a curiosity about going into this sort of practice that I’m only now coming to. I have not been, that is probably also a cause of the disconnect, is that I have not been very curious about body work or this type of practice. Another thing also to like, at once both defend the body, but also to really criticize what a body is, a body is also where it’s been now, like the body can only do what the body can do, it only knows what it knows, knows, it can only sense what it can sense, like it’s very limited being in the world, like the body does not have access to that much. So in terms of what it means to train and learn, it’s not too much about what the body can go out and do and learn, because the body can only learn what it already knows. It’s much more about letting the world experience back on the body. body so as you say with the curiosity to to invite that experience onto the body because you cannot force it you cannot provoke it you cannot ask for it you cannot sign up for a class where it will happen the world the universe without sounding anything spiritual or whatever but all that the happenings out there will find the body at certain points but you cannot insist on that coming to you I really resonate with what you’re saying and your experience with the body, but I also feel like it can also be just another layer of your body has to be able to do this, because yeah, the body can only do what it can do, but at the moment, or like in general, I feel like we push the body to do a lot more than what it actually can do. do. I know the body can do it, but maybe it’s doing everything to say no. So it can also be another layer of saying, now you have to just be in this and be curious and take whatever comes in. But it’s, I think it’s less about saying what you should do or should not do. Like saying no is also part of that experience. when the world can find you. I think that’s my point. It’s so much less about what we think we should do or not do with our bodies because that doesn’t matter that much compared to what the world is doing with our bodies. And when I say the world, I mean if the light strikes down or the rain falls differently than you have ever thought. rain could fall on your skin and that is a new experience. I think that the world is always already happening to us all the time and attuning to that so it’s not just the spectacular events of the lightning striking or something unexpected happening but but the wild experience of a leaf. leaf making this kind of rattling sound over this paper as I don’t know the surface of this crazy pillow like to also and like this this this awe of what is already there and I think that is something that can be trained that is something that can be awakened and it’s almost like a muscle that can become more and more active and easier to click into by training and kind of by re it’s like this what is it called this kind of psychology where you kind of rewire your mind to think differently. I really recognize these kinds of impulses and the awe and all of that resonates a lot with me. But for some curious reason there’s a disconnect between that and my body or what I consider is my body or the boundaries or barriers of my body. Or the way you respond to it maybe. maybe. – I think that is, at the moment, somewhere different. – Yeah. I think this is what is so interesting about this affordances text, I shared. I can give you a couple, it’s about the concept of affordances, which is, I think, comes from perceptual psychology, but then it’s taken into architecture, also to mean, like, what interaction possibilities that are in our environment and then how do we meet those interaction possibilities and how these interactions can create sort of these new feedback loops where new systems arise, new impulses, new ways of relating and so on and so forth. And then I think it’s so interesting also to keep exploring. So it doesn’t come naturally to me to sing as a response to something or to use my voice. It comes naturally for me to use my body. It really resonates with my body. But not so much my voice, but then to actively seek it out. but then I will do that just to to keep expanding the the potential of my of my responsibility yeah maybe a testimony to that like personally I feel that being together with you for today and doing the things that we have done today in the way that we have done it has opened up up exercise my muscle in a way that I could not have done for myself or even imagine doing it because like before today I predicted a certain way like I would sell my muscle this is gonna be the day like unconsciously I was doing that yeah prepare myself to go for the run that I used to go for and at the same time then the gravel that I was running or or the way that you were interacting with me changed that setting in a situation situation. And that’s like, I don’t know what that means yet, but I have felt small surprises, things that were less recognizable or challenges of what I thought was what I saw and then no, it was not. Or even hearing these that I’ve never heard before. So just like this banal experience of something new or different or layers of the same, it means a lot also in ways that I we don’t know yet that’s quite nice very comforting it’s like I’m learning to listening but I don’t know what I’ve learned but my listening have changed We could do that let me do a little round where people perhaps offer comment or a question or wondering or something, just like to end, also to like let go of thoughts of experiences or feelings so that we can exit the conversations. If that feels all right All in terms of like we are all in it abruptly, but Together the things that are within this situation of the conversation Yeah, and then it comes to rest settle and then we can move away from it Yeah And I don’t know if anyone already knows if they have a note or not. I really feel like your question from this morning is circling back to me, or as I remember your question. It might not be. be directly how you put it but that is the question the burning question I’m left with now is that of is my capitalist body during ok is kind of the wondering I feel like there was there is something about just acceptance this as you I think you said it just accepting your capitalist party it is what it is and from that I feel like there is some kind of you can move from that and you can leave something behind if that’s what you you need. But at least for me I feel like there’s some kind of openness in just accepting the state. That can also be an entrance point. The mode from where you are operating. Maybe I can go next because I think my ending remark would then be how would our new or changed listening body be for tomorrow? How the affections imprint themselves on again a year or for our next generation. I really perceive these ways of exploring and working in research. researching and finding, maybe not knowledge but realizations, like to add on to the whole evolution of our relationship to the body. I really feel, I see that as evolutionary training and in that, I feel like in that evolutionary training, it’s also like how we’re doing it. you invite others into that. So I guess that’s also what tomorrow is. How do we then share excerpts of these to reverberate on in other lives?How we transform those energies, like the peace. Yeah, exactly. One to each other. other. – To be true and the same. – Yeah. – I like the idea of, like, evolutionary training. Because it’s so deep -bodied that that is what is happening. – Yeah. – Why not just work with it, or align also with it, or invite it in. Also because it doesn’t have to be post -humanism or a cyborg thing. – Right. and maybe to intentionally seek out how we train ourselves to respond to what is happening to the world. Any more last remarks?